The Noble Pagan Forums - Religion in Schools

A few years back now, Texas (by the skin of their teeth) merged religion into the schools. These schools were public-- if they were private, I wouldn't have much say or an opinion on the matter. After school, you could enroll your child in a Bible Study program, provided by the school.

My personal feelings are these.

1. Option or not, religion really has no business being in public schools. Everyone has different beliefs and even if they share the same belief, they may translate it differently or practice differently.

2. Though you may have a qualified individual to teach said After School religion program, if they are guiding and teaching children in a way that parents don't agree with, said child will (hopefully) be removed. It can be hard to remove the teachings of another (if its necessary).

3. Having a select religion can be considered biased. If you just have to have Religion in the Public School System, please make it a WORLD RELIGION class. This will introduce children to (appropriately selected) religion in a very open minded way.

4. When I say appropriately selected, I mean the major and even some minor Religious groups-- avoiding beliefs that promote or accept violence towards others.

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I'm having a hard time articulating more on my opinions as the thoughts just wont form as constructively as I'd like.

None the less I'd like to know how others feel about Religion in Public School Systems.

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Religion has no place in the school. Period. Because without the possibility of objective teachings it is going to sway or be held accountable and blame ridden for a myriad of stupidity.

There is actually no way to NOT have it mentioned simply because within the context of history it existed in countless wars and influenced much in the early development of many cultures.

But to have a class devoted to such - no. Wrong or right the weight, and responsibility for that lays with the parents or family - and yes I am aware that even that can be lacking but in todays age of progress, there is a myriad of methods a child unsatisfied with what its family owns to faith can seek information on. And yes some may be bad some may be good, but its the sheer act of researching such that teaches more then any bible or book.

Placing the responsibility for it in schools is simply another hand off. Its enough that they have the child longer then the parents spend time with the kids most of the time due simply to economical stressors forcing parents to work longer and more. Schools have the responsibility for teaching and instruction - not guiding ones childs religious paths.

Slides off her soap box

I'm inclined to agree and as you stated its going to be impossible to keep religion out of schools for the simple fact its a major influence in several wars through out history and even today. Sometimes I feel like the war on Terrorism is more focused on a War against beliefs-- specifically Religious beliefs.

Then again, if we all believed in the same Divine Spirit/Power would we be so hostile towards one another? Then it goes into having people preaching about their ideal of God and what it truly means to believe in God and...thats just another argument/debate to have for another day. Personally? I don't need anyone to tell me what God is or isn't and I sure as hell don't need anyone telling my kids that either (when or if I do have them).

Religion is personal. Its a serious decision to make. Its up to the parents to decide what they want to expose their children to-- and frankly I think keeping an open mind to a child's curiosity or any belief system is acceptable/encouraging but until the kid is 18? Parents decision, parents responsibility.

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I agree but I know that its a delicate balance because there are extreme cases where some parents just...well lets face it can not be counted on because of their own issues - ie drugs etc. But in general I do agree it should not be taught as a class in school.

Some parents also expect the school system to be their babysitter and become furious when their children aren't passing or aren't doing well. Parents need to become more engaged with their children's lives. I feel like I don't have any right to say this when I haven't any children myself, but I've seen it time and time again!

Europeans complain about our public schools education system and its credibility/strength.

I think we need a nationwide standard. This 'No Child Left Behind' is an ideal that would be great if it actually worked. Classes are over crowded and that leaves little time for a teacher to be attentive to an individual or two that may be struggling. There is also the case of children who actively act out in class-- hostility and parents lack of concern or ability to contain their child's rage/rebellion. Children are all unique and need to be treated with care but not made excuses for when they are just being teenagers.

Andddd I'm going on a tangent.

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I have four, two of each variety and all adults. Now as to the No Child Left Behind - I can speak from experience on this. My step daughter [ ex's by his first wife ] Was within the school system of Pennsylvania and this was their by god policy - [ insert serious sarcasm ] Shall I tell you in all apathy what that means ?

It means that - if we can eek you by you will pass because no one will fail - I had a step daughter who lived with her biological mom in the fourth grade who was no further in her knowledge and skills then a pre schooler. Because when we got involved and hunted the reason B. could not read....it was told to us - WE LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND....WTF??? So trust me I think that program might have had some good meaning but it turned into the usual apathetic mess that every social reform does.

Our school systems are deplorable, not because our teachers are under qualified but because society- parents and teachers combined don't particularly care. There are places in most states that not only will most of us never wish to raise a child but cannot bribe teachers to stay because the basic living rate and wage is a joke . These are the people we charge with holding the responsibility of instructing our little heathens and preparing them for the world beyond us and they cannot live on the wage most of the time . . . makes college pretty much not worth it when you balance it.

Then we have the wonder parents - whose drug or violent problems somehow outweight the needs of the child. Socially this country tends to be on the high side of bad.

Does that mean people should toss in the towel - No, it just means that those of us who do care need to remember that as sad as it is , not everyone is like us. And work hard and hope that what we can instill in our children can combat that which will always be present till some sort of major social reform can be completed

oh dear lord do NOT get me started on the schools. It is my personal MISSION to goad, prod, piss off, upset, harass, embarrass and humiliate any and all within the school systems that have anything to do with trying to suppress the rules, morals and ethics I instill into my children.

I have absolutely no fear of the school system. Nor should anyone, because truth be told, they work for us. Not the other way around. I will not be a sheep that agrees with every decision that the school makes on my children's behalf without contacting me and asking me if it's alright with me PERSONALLY. That means a phone call.

Here's the fun part, even with the problems that my children have, the school is so afraid of me at this point that they do exactly what I tell them will happen with my children. And this, my friends, is exactly how the schools should be, in my opinion, when dealing with parents who are doing right by their kids.

Sadly in my school there are about three diffrent christian clubs. Basiclly they all get chairs, sit in a circle, and discuss the bible. Each one had pureity rings and a collection of bibles. No such thing as class that teaches any other religions or anything. Last year when I was in a few plays, before each show we all had to grab hands and pray. I told last years Theatre teacher I wasn't comfortable praying to a christian god insted of our gods. He said just grin and bare it.

After that I refused to join the circles, and always pretended to finish up makeup or go to the bathroom. Everyone wasn't really happy with me when I started all that.

This year we have a new Theatre Teacher, but we haven't had a Play yet.

But overal, I agree. Religion shouldn't be so braided into school. Makes peeps uncomfortable. Hence my story above. It stinks. The Princable says 'Its imprtant for people to find themselves in the bible. That's why we still have the clubs'. I once told him back "What about the other religions? Christianity isn't the only Religion" and he acturally asked what other religions. There were only four or three religions listed in his head. Christianity, Catholic, Satanism, and Athists.

I think it is a big problem. Who knows how open the next generations will be if peeps think there are only five or four religions in the world. That's not exciting

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*In Clint Eastwood voice* "They call me Penny.... Jenny-Penny. And Skittles. Because I like them... alot. And then there is another name they call me; its Miss Baggins..." -Me

"There is no such thing as a small part in a play, but there are small actors" -Me

"One does not simply Rock into Mordor!" -Random drunk dude down the street

I got an acronym for ya to push next time yer principal pulls some stuff like that: ACLU.

If you are not comfortable with something being done in your school, it is your constitutionally given right to a) question the reason for what they are trying to make you do, and b) refuse to participate.

In the terms of participation, if they do not allow you to participate in a play (for example, using yours) because you refused to participate in the opening prayer, they have just stepped over the line of your freedom of religion. In other words, they cannot legally do it. And the ACLU would jump all over them for it.

On the grounds of the clubs, if the school is allowing bible study groups to be conducted on school grounds, they cannot refuse a circle study to be conducted. If you so choose you could request permission for a circle study group, fully explaining the purposes and religious affiliation, and see if the school hangs themselves. Basically it's a catch 22, if they say yes, then they have to deal with the repercussions from upset parents (which will happen, it's unfortunate but true), if they say no, then they are breaking a multitude of federal statutes and (depending on your state) state laws, at which point you get the ACLU involved.

Now, understand that I am not telling to you do these things, they are nothing more than things that I would do in that situation with explanations as to why. You're an adult and can make your own decisions. But know if you choose to cause a ruckus (I would, will, and continually do so with the schools), that they do not go down without a fight 90% of the time. It's like going up against the good ole boy network most of the time, but if you have your ducks and information on point, there's nothing that the schools can do but acquiesce to the laws of this nation.

Never have had a problem with ethically issues, I tend to drive up in a LARGE truck and march in demanding. At this point even after my kids are now grown their principal still wont walk on the same side of the street as me LOL..

But its true, the system sucks. And they are there for us not the other way around. Sadly they are not worth the tax dollars that are allegedly spent