The Noble Pagan Forums - Consider This.

A vast majority of people have an enormous amount of faith in one man; Christ. So much so many Governments are constructed with the influence of Christianity which in turn shape many cultures and civilizations.

Consider this:

If each person had the faith they maintain in Christ towards their fellow man, how would that effect us as a whole?

Would we be setting ourselves up for mass disappointment? Or would a revolution of positive change happen?

Think about a few things before answering; Positive and Negative reenforcement and its effect on people, their self worth, self esteem and morality and motivation to produce good or bad behavior. Think about the effects in which having faith, the belief in someone would have on a person.

__________________

We are in the midst of a global awakening. There are millions of people that are coming to question their belief system(s) in ways that make the older generations cringe.

I think the way I would phrase your questions would be, "If everyone suddenly came to the conclusion that it is themselves that are the deity and not some incongruous ideological philosophy, what would become of our social structures?"

All belief systems, if you follow them from their true roots to their current manifestations (if they survived), tend to build on the previous incarnations. Each one was needed by the society as a whole to build up the spiritual identity of that society. My personal thought process is that all belief systems will ultimately come to one final conclusion ... we are in control, and have been since before we were born.

....God created man in his image.....and Man in his infinite ego created God in his.... Was the best line I ever heard in dealing with the faith crisis that rears its head whenever great traumas or social and economical stressors are present.

That is by far the best I've ever heard on God.

I'm assuming that the very "fellow man" we have the faith in would still be the same imperfect men that walk the earth every day, right? If so, then I don't think that'd work out so well.

If I'm getting your question right, the "faith" in JC that Christians have isn't so much because of him, but because of what he represents to them; i.e he is the segue for them to get to heaven. I don't know that that kind of faith could, in fact, be had between 2 equal men (by "men" I mean humans in general).

Having "faith" is a good thing, but having that kind of faith in imperfect people is a recipe for failure. Some teenage kids in the 60's had "faith" in someone, and they ended up partaking in one of the worst massacres in history--they had "faith" in Charles Manson.

I suppose for Christians it's easy to have faith in Jesus, simply because he's perfect; he's not gonna mess up the plan, right? You can't say the same for your crazy neighbor down the street--who's gonna put that kind of faith in him?

Once ( a long time ago) when I was a lonely and misunderstood teenager who still played with stuffed animals ( hey they na judge me so don't you either) I created a whole religion and what nots. I forget the details ( hell it been almost 20 years) however a question arose in my mind in doing such.
"God created Man, but without Man...God would not be"
Think about that.
God, ( JC and all that ) is only the power we give the job title and description power to be through our conceptialization (spelled wrong) and understanding ( as limited as that may be).
We need something to believe in for creation purposes ( what is life? why? what is my purpose? Where will I go when I die yadeeya) but really what we view God as is only our concept of the answer to those questions.
I am not dissin' on Divinity at all. I'm just saying our concepts of God ( Goddess, JC etc) are ( mostly)man made ( generally speaking through our sometimes limited understanding and perceptions).
So in a man made ego sort of sense it's the age old question of "who came first? The chicken or the egg?"

As for what DebnMike said I agree.
I think people are too likely to rely on the tangible and tactile. Jesus ( from what I understand in a very limited way) taught lessons on taking care of the self and others. Understanding, compassion and all that. However those are not physical things people can latch on to. Those are concepts which some may grasp in whole, some may grasp in part, some may grasp as befits and none at all. People tend to cling to something they can see, smell, touch, etc. and identify with. That is why so many people wear a symbol of torture or the body of christ in punishment as a religious talisman and yet work against his teachings. His physical torment and punishment is what sticks with (us) as it is tangible and almost readily connective while his teachings are twisted, blathered and debated because really how can you physically represent in a reconizable symbol something as forgiveness?
I hope I am making sense here. I have met the zealots of Christianity and I have met those who walk what the path I think Christ would have been proud of so by no means am I putting anyone down.
Just my two guatalajaran centavos.
Arriba!

C.S.

First off idk if manson is the best example there as far as his followers having faith in him it was more of an lsd induced brainwashing. Religion in general throughout history has been two things a place to settle all the answers that no one had i.e. what happens when u die, and two a form of social control i.e. how do we get folks to not eat the rotten meat tell them "god" said not to. I do my best everyday to believe that humanity in general is still wonderful granted that idea gets shit on all the time but i still hold to it. If the average person only uses 3% of their mental capacity one must wonder what we are truly capable of as a species and a society. Was going somewhere with this but at work and got interrupted so i will edit and finish when i can get my brain back on track .

Isn't all religious belief a form of brain-washing? Don't our parents, schools, and even our peers continually attempt to mold our beliefs, at least until we learn to think for ourselves?
This is why baptism is so powerful and so many religions use it in one form or another; it is a physical washing symbolic of a brain-washing (or brain-change, if you will).

I believe it is important once one learns how to think for one's self, that one re-evaluate long held beliefs to ensure that the meaning and reasons for those beliefs are clear. This is a good exercise to do on occasion. We should evaluate any religious experiences we have, to determine how much of our interpretation of those experiences are shaped by our expectations and our world-view (reality-tunnel). We should evaluate how much of our beliefs are shaped by other people, and whether those people's opinions are trustworthy.

Just my two cents worth.

I agree 100% San i guess my point was he as a true predator preyed on these kids and with the help of a very powerful psychoactive drug convinced them to do things he probably wouldnt of been able to without. By using the drug and many other tactics he eliminated thier will for free thought.

I could go on and on with several points with this whole thread. But I will spare you all, ......

I can't speak to all religions, because I am still trying to find my way. But I am still looking, comparing multiple religions/faiths. I don't claim to know all, I am open to learn. I have been more "spiritual and/or spiritualist" than a christian....

Being from a family that were devout Christians, and living an area that there are many extreme/conservative beliefs/denominations of the christian faith. YOu nailed it with your post their SanD. I would say a lot people beliefs are molded by their parents/family, the church etc etc, some by the true world of the bible etc, and unfortunately I would have to say some of "the brainwashing", coercion, ignorance and fear based teachings of at least the christian faith some people (weak minded) take the word of another at face value; without questioning what these people are truly saying...

The best quote of among many was Mr. Jesse Ventura;

“Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers.”



I am not saying this of all religions, but mainly the christian faith is the best explain of this, speaking from my own experiences.

If you study the bible, and look for the multiple passages to fully understand the meaning of GOD/JC and how to be a "good christian". The golden rule aka karma, don't judge or be judgmental of other people, etc etc etc. The world would be a lot better place. But there are a lot of other religions/faiths that share a lot of these similar beliefs.

But after being told many times, that I would be damned to eternal hell. I was afraid for many, many years to even study or look at other religions, because if you worship, study another religion you are going to "hell". And all religions, besides Christianity and Judaism were the "devil". (I don't necessarily believe this because it's more fear based and coercion on the part of the church.) Because I believed in "evolution" (scientific facts, kind of hard to ignore that), because I could see/hear ghosts etc, believed or interest in "the occult" (tarot cards and the whole lot), reincarnation, life after death. I am suppose to believe in the "Holy Spirit" but not ghosts.

I think Mr CR mentioned above about people becoming "awakened"..... And if look at the documentaries on the HIstory Channel, Discovery Channel, Natgeo etc, that are evaluating the world religions. It really makes you think, really how much different really religions are, how many things did they share and borrow from other religions. (Look at Paganism and Christianity for example, there are many things Christianity borrowed from Paganism etc etc etc. How many "holidays" are truly Pagan based that Christianity borrowed or try to sway people to convert? I can name a few...)

I know I ranted a bit, but I have been thinking about this topic and few others A LOT LATELY.

I think this song says it best....

" title="YouTube- Michael Franti - East To The West" target="_blank">YouTube- Michael Franti - East To The West