The Noble Pagan Forums - Daoism: Looking for explanations

Daoism was founded on more of a social belief system, like communism, than a religious one. That said, it is well over 4,000 years old and dates back to at least the 4th century BC.

While it is an organized religion, it has been influenced by many factors over the years; cultural, political and social influences have all played a part in making this particular belief system very hard to define. One thing is quite clear: Daoism is hard to define. It has few essential characteristics that remain constant from one generation to another. It has disparate origins, has borrowed extensively from other religions and our understanding of it has been further complicated by the effects of Western colonialism and Western-inspired communism.

From what I can gather, at the very base of things it is currently a melding of the teachings of Buddha, Confucius and Zhuangzi. The central "bible" if you will is the Dao De Jing, and was supposed to have been written by Lao Zi. The problem is that the name Lao Zi literally the "name" means "The Old Boy," so it's not really a name at all - just an epithet. It derives from the legend that he was, from his birth (following a miraculous conception by a falling star and his mother's extended pregnancy), an old man.

This work contains suggestions on how to live "The Way" of Daoism, of which you can find many in use for motivational quotes and thoughts for day to day living in today's business world.

It appears that the main suggestion is: "The most effective course of action is always ... to do nothing!" - Wu Wei

There are many others and I personally find some of them to be extremely funny given today's current social atmosphere. For example:
"Slaughter the talented", suggests Lao Zi, "And everybody will benefit."
"Honor and disgrace are each to be avoided, good fortune and disaster are identical."
"Wherever the Way is cherished, horses pull plows and their dung fertilizes crops ... wherever the Way is abandoned, horses pull cannons and their dung messes streets."

and my personal favorite:
"Were wealth scorned, thieves would repent!"

Does anyone here have more information on this particular subject?

Well, since I practice Taoism I guess should be able to answer some of these. First off as I read this post you have to understand there are two core followings of Taoism (at least as I've been taught).

The first is what you were explaining which is religious Taoism. This is the group who believe Lao Tzu (Tzi also depend on the translation) was a God/Diety and revered him as such along with the other Chinese celestial deities. Much like you've described.

The second is philosophical Taoism which is my following. In philosophical Taoism there is no worship of Lao Tzu as a deity. It is more of a following of nature and the Tao (which translates into Way). More explanation on the "Way" later in this post.

Correct

What makes Taoism hard to define (from the philosophical stand point) is actually Lao Tzu's own writing. He purposefully made most of his passage's in abstract form. To read the the Tao Te Ching and take it literally will have you extremely confused.

The translation of Lao Tzu from my readings was that of "Wise Man". To understand why this was done you have to look back in Chinese history. It wasn't unheard of for people to change their names based on the titles and ranks given to them by the magistrate and Emperor.

Also why that legend is from the religious side, again, I practice the philosophical side. From what I've read Lao Tzu has been recorded as working in the Forbidden City as Head Librarian. He also was able to read, and as such would often read the books in one of the largest libraries in China. This was how he gained such knowledge. There were also written reports from Confucius having met with Lao Tzu.

The "Way" is actually considered to be the Myriad of things. For me as a philosophical Taoist it also is the closest thing to a God/Goddess which I revere.

The Way that can be experienced is not true;
The world that can be constructed is not real.
The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;
The world represents all that exists and may exist.

To experience without abstraction is to sense the world;
To experience with abstraction is to know the world.
These two experiences are indistinguishable;
Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,
Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.

Lao Tzu also points out in his writings that anyone able to give name, claim to understand, or know what the "Way" is would suggest that they have God like knowledge. Since we are only mortal such a thing is not possible and as such we are taught that. The way is considered to be that which keeps all things in creation. It is how nature operates and around us all the time yet never there.

This follows though with the views on abstraction.

When beauty is abstracted
Then ugliness has been implied;
When good is abstracted
Then evil has been implied.

So alive and dead are abstracted from nature,
Difficult and easy abstracted from progress,
Long and short abstracted from contrast,
High and low abstracted from depth,
Song and speech abstracted from melody,
After and before abstracted from sequence.

The sage experiences without abstraction,
And accomplishes without action;
He accepts the ebb and flow of things,
Nurtures them, but does not own them,
And lives, but does not dwell.

I'll post more later as I'm already late for college. Expect more on this by mid afternoon or tonight. If there is anything specifically someone wants to know about then please post it. However, please take in mind I really can't answer about the religious side of Taoism only the philosophical side.

~Chaos

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